(no subject)

[meret.livejournal.com]

Woo-hoo! I loved tonight's episode! :)

What I loved:

I just finished watching it, and I feel like jumping up and down!!! I wanted to celebrate with them. They so needed a victory, and this one was great! :D

The scene in the war room where Bill was telling Kara that the transition from pilot to command was hard for him too was terrific! He so sees himself in her. I can totally see Kara ending up in command of the fleet and Lee as President.

So based on prophecy, we know Laura won't reach the promised land of earth, which I guess makes her Moses. It may or may not be the cancer that kills her though.

I was intrigued by 6 affirming Colonial scripture near the end. I guess in my mind, I'd thought the cylons looked at colonial religion the way fundamentalists christians look at Islam, and fundamentalists muslims look at christians. (Meaning they consider them infidels with no real religion.) Now it appears to me that the cylons, or at least the 6 in Baltar's head, view the colonial religion as many Christians view the Old Testament - a part of God's plan, but not the final answer.

I loved the celtic music in this ep, especially the song at the end.

Overthinking! That's exactly what I've said - that Lee's intellect is his greatest strength and greatest flaw; just as Kara's greatest strength and greatest flaw is her reliance on her gut. They are two sides of a coin, yin and yang. I *loved* that in this ep, to succeed each one had to do it by depending on characteristics they don't normally rely on; each had to emulate the other in a way. Lee had to follow a hunch that the tunnel would lead him where he needed to go even though there was no real evidence of that, and Kara had to rely on planning rather than reacting. Squee! :)

What did the lighter that Bill gave Lee say, please? I couldn't make it out.

I loved the backdoor plan!

What I liked:

Was anyone else thinking, "Use the force, Lee!", when he was heading down the tunnel to blow up the refinery? *g* (I think it was the refinery.)

I wonder if Caprica!Sharon is pregnant? I'd wondered if it was part of the cylon plan to have Helo impregnate her. At this point, I'm guessing it's either that, or the cylons are sending her some signal to make her sick and slow her down. This is total speculation on my part, BTW. I don't read spoilers.

What I didn't like:

I didn't like Bill's response to Lee about Kara leading the squadron in the lighter scene. I think him saying, "Because you're my son," was meant to be sweet, reassuring response, but it didn't come across that way to me at all. IMO, there are two ways to interpret his statement. Either Bill's just basing his opinion on sentiment and the love of a father toward a son, or he means Lee has his DNA, and he's so great that of course Lee will do well just because he's his son. Neither expresses faith in Lee's abilities. I think that was poor writing. Emphasizing the father/son relationship and love was the right answer when Lee expressed doubts to Bill about him preferring Kara over Lee in YCGHA. I don't think it was the right answer here.

Still don't like what they're doing with Baltar. I don't expect or even want to like all the characters or always agree with what they do. I do want them to be consistent though. Why did Baltar guess about the target to hit? Why not just say I don't know? I haven't seen any evidence before this that his, admittedly huge, ego was worth more to him than his life. In the mini-series and the first 5 eps or so, self-preservation seemed to be his driving characteristic. We've now seen him make several decisions that seem to put his own survival in jeopardy, (not telling the others that Boomer is a cylon for example), and have been given no good reason for it other than that's he insane. If that's the case, he's far less interesting to me than he was before. Now if he does become a convert that believes that God is guiding him so everything he does is part of God's plan and therefore right, fine. That would explain his making choices contrary to his immediate survival, though he would still be less interesting to me that way. But that wasn't the case in his making the guess about the target. At the moment, he's the weakest written character IMO.



*going to watch it again and then listen to the podcast*

Comments

[yafah.livejournal.com]

i think the lighter said "Joseph Adama"

[fozziewriter.livejournal.com]

I think you have good, good points and you maybe 100% right on. However, I thought that both Adama and Gauis's behavior were pretty right on, IMHO. I think the familial family pride in Lee would be common in someone his age and he was giving Lee confidence by passing on a family heirloom to 'help him'. I've seen this is people before.

Secondly, IMHO Baltar's huge ego always put his survival in danger and is still evident as he lifts his arms upward proud that God used him.

I love this show and the writing................ Loved the star-wars reference.
I like your take on the Sharon sickness thing, I kinda missed that one.

[morwen_peredhil]

I can totally see Kara ending up in command of the fleet and Lee as President.

Oh, me too. They could rule the frakking galaxy together if they put their minds to it.

I loved the celtic music in this ep, especially the song at the end.

I liked the music, but to me it didn't feel like it belonged on the Galactica.

Was anyone else thinking, "Use the force, Lee!", when he was heading down the tunnel to blow up the refinery?

No, we were yelling it out loud!

[yafah.livejournal.com]

haha so were we!

[solarbird]

Adama: "Can't sleep."

solarbird and spazzkat: "Clowns will eat me."

[solarbird]

As soon as they had the table and the radio, it was all, "Red five, red five, this is gold leader," and then OH LOOK A TRENCH. <giggles> So that was pretty funny. ^_^

[meret.livejournal.com]

Thank you! I couldn't tell. :)

[meret.livejournal.com]

he was giving Lee confidence by passing on a family heirloom to 'help him'.

I loved him giving Lee the lighter. It was just that one line I had a problem with.

Baltar's huge ego always put his survival in danger

Can you give me some examples please? I haven't seen the mini since it was first broadcast, so I may have totally forgotten some scenes.

I like your take on the Sharon sickness thing, I kinda missed that one.

Thanks! It may be what Helo suggested - that she's not taking her anti-radiation meds. I could see her wanting to save them for Helo, and not feel that she deserves to take them. It's fun to speculate. :)

[meret.livejournal.com]

LOL! :)

[meret.livejournal.com]

Hee! I missed that. :)

[zorb]

I was wondering if pregnancy was the goal of the whole Helo thing when (I think two eps ago?) the Cylon crew mentioned that they'd set up the house for Boomer and Helo nearby. All part of the Cylon obsession with bridging the human/machine gap.

But I think it'd be a bit early for morning sickness already, unless it's somehow accelerated for Cylons.

[meret.livejournal.com]

I liked the music, but to me it didn't feel like it belonged on the Galactica.

Because it was so obviously celtic? What kind of music would you like to see on the show other than that? I was trying to think myself of what they could do that would be less recognizably from the earth.

[gobi-rex.livejournal.com]

I didn't like Bill's response to Lee about Kara leading the squadron in the lighter scene. "Because you're my son," was meant to be sweet, reassuring response, but it didn't come across that way to me at all. IMO, there are two ways to interpret his statement.

I felt the same way. I know I'm projecting my own parent issues here, but this response wouldn't reassure me either. It would only confirm my doubts that I'm valued not for my abilities, but for my DNA. Issues much, huh? On the other hand, your family members can be the only people who love you unconditionally and that's another side of the coin. [shutting up now]

[meret.livejournal.com]

But I think it'd be a bit early for morning sickness already, unless it's somehow accelerated for Cylons.

Good point! I didn't think of that. :)

[meret.livejournal.com]

Issues much, huh?

You and me both. *wry grin*

You might want to listen to the podcast and hear Ron Moore's take on this scene. I was very surprised by his interpretation of it.
http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/downloads/podcast/

[thefannishwaldo.livejournal.com]

FWIW, her 'morning sickness' would have been in the evening. She says something about being sick from the beans they ate 'that afternoon'. Just a thought.

[ilanala]

I agree with both of your criticisms. The scene with Lee and Adama was nice, but the "Because your my son" felt like a real platitude, especially since everything we'd seen to that point made it seem like Adama did think Kara could do it better. I guess he was trying to be supportive, but Lee's old enough to not need to be coddled like that. I'm glad that bugged someone besides me.

As for Baltar, I complained last week about the fact that his actions really make no sense, and people responded that they do if you assume that he's just gone completely insane and thinks he's somehow protected. I think it's a pretty weak excuse, though, and I do agree that he's probably the least well-written character. Everyone else's actions usually make sense to me even if I disagree with them, but Baltar I just don't understand.

[morwen_peredhil]

I'm not sure. It's just that so far, this is the only episode where the music has pulled me out of the story instead of being a seamless part of the experience.

[jo-lasalle.livejournal.com]

I didn't like Bill's response to Lee about Kara leading the squadron in the lighter scene. I think him saying, "Because you're my son," was meant to be sweet, reassuring response, but it didn't come across that way to me at all.

I was mostly just confused by that answer, but I had assumed it had to do with me not getting some aspects of the father-son bonding. *g*

I'm now leaning towards thinking that he was winging it, trying to be reassuring even though he couldn't in all honesty deny all that previous stuff about how fantastic a pilot Starbuck is, but it's really not an ideal response to Lee's insecurities.

[fozziewriter.livejournal.com]

he was giving Lee confidence by passing on a family heirloom to 'help him'.

In an earlier episode, Starbuck had crashed and Adama risked the safety of the fleet to hunt for her. Lee didn't have a problem but on some level he questioned his father's devotion to him and asked what he would do if it were him and Adama said "You're my son I would Never give up looking for you." Adama lost another son that Starbuck had trained and he wasn't quite up to snuff as a pilot but was engaged to Starbuck who passed him in flight training. The other son supposedly died in a flight accident. I think Adama would spill out some of those feelings about his other son toward Starbuck.
He possibly identifies with Starbuck because he too protected that other son's weakness like Starbuck and they share the love and guilt for that.

In the very first episode I believe, you see Baltar in bed with another woman and Six walks in and of course has an in depth conversation with him, lol. But the impression of a dangerous womanizer, work-a-holic, arrogant Dr. is made. When he finds he's responsible for the demise of the human race, what he really is upset about is that they might be able to blame him and that he might be crazy since he sees Six and nobody else does. With Gaius it's all me, me, me.

And won't it be interesting to see what happens with Sharon and Helo, I love sub-plots.

This is my favorite sci-fi series ever and what I think they have hands-down over the top, is character development and understanding of human nature. This series is science-fiction at it's absolute best.

And thanks for being cool about seeing the character's actions differently :)

[mikou.livejournal.com]

Great commentary. I was equally pleased with this episode. I loved the Star Wars homages. (Haven't heard the Podcast commentary, but I have no doubt that it was intentional.)

Though it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, I also briefly wondered about Caprica-Boomer being pregnant. I also wonder if there might not be some change to the atmosphere that might be making her sick. However, the other humanoid Cylons seem to be fine, so that theory is sort of a stretch. It might be interesting if something else were making her sick, though, because being in a more vulnerable position might increase her risk of being exposed as a Cylon.

As for Lee and William Adama, my take on it was that Adama may have been trying to say that, as Lee's father, he knows what Lee is capable of and, therefore, has full confidence in him. However, the scene could have been written a little better.

Otherwise, I enjoyed the rest of the episode. I see Baltar as moving closer and closer to the type of character who we saw in the original series and the fact that he would see himself as some instrument of the gods fits right in with his arrogance.

well now. aren't I talkative today

[stagelight311.livejournal.com]

I loved the backdoor plan!

Oh my gods, yes! I was freaking out up until that point, wondering how they were gonna manage to pull it off, and then they throw this piece of awesome into the mix. As others have said, couldn't see it coming and was beyond excited when it did.

or the cylons are sending her some signal to make her sick and slow her down.

See, that's what I was thinking. Pregnancy didn't even cross my mind. But, man, the possibilities with that one. As long as, if such is the case, they don't get all "ahh, it's the messiah" about the future kid.

Neither expresses faith in Lee's abilities.

I don't think it was supposed to seem as if he were truly expressing faith in Lee's abilities. Adama doesn't know how to relate to Apollo through any other means, and I think part of the point of the scene was to emphasize that.

The truth is, he's not a very good father, and he does not know how to relate to his son, or how to say the right thing at the right time. The only way he knows how to express to Apollo that he cares is by bringing up the fact that he loves him, and so it makes sense that he would say such a thing in such a moment. It's not necessarily about expressing faith; it's about saying, "look, I love you, okay? I care."

I get the feeling that he might have been trying to reassure but simply didn't know how, and so his attempt fell flat. I think that's keeping Adama in character, because the man has consistently been crappy at doing the whole father-son thing. And anyway, people saying the wrong thing at the wrong time is realistic. Honestly, I think it happens more often than people saying the right thing.

As for Baltar, well...I think his ego is his life, heh. After all, he wouldn't care so much for self-preservation were it not for his ego. I also think that he is becoming a convert, if he isn't there already -- because, well, that whole business suits his ego and it prevents Six from getting dangerously cross with him.

Now, as for him guessing the target, if he truly is an instrument of god, then it could be said that he didn't have a choice but to make a guess. That's going a little out there, I admit, but I do think the show is setting up certain characters (like, well, Baltar, but also Roslin and perhaps even Starbuck) to be pawns in something larger than themselves. There would be no need to continually bring up this prophecy business otherwise. I don't know how I feel about all of that yet (if it's written well, it could be really frakking cool, but if it's not...uh....yeah), but it seems like things are going that way. In light of that, while Baltar might have at first thought that he had simply been guessing, he might truly have been guided against his conscious will to point out that target. That frees him from the responsibility of rational action in that instance.

Of course, like I said, that's way out there, heh.

[residentgeek.livejournal.com]

I wonder if Caprica!Sharon is pregnant? I'd wondered if it was part of the cylon plan to have Helo impregnate her. At this point, I'm guessing it's either that, or the cylons are sending her some signal to make her sick and slow her down.

My reaction was that she was pregnant, if only because she got sick after smelling the peanut butter. That's a pretty common reaction in pregnant women (sometimes it's the smell of eggs or certain kinds of meat). That's what made me say, "oh, morning sickness, yeah."

[(Anonymous)]

Morning sickness isn't confined to just the morning; it can happen at any time of day. Including the evening. The reason it's called morning sickness is because for a lot of pregnant women, the nausea sets in right after waking up; however, it goes without saying that not all pregnancies are identical.

[meret.livejournal.com]

With Gaius it's all me, me, me.

ITA! That's exactly why I have a problem with him putting anything, including his ego, over his own survival. To me it's not consistent with his character. JMO.

And thanks for being cool about seeing the character's actions differently :)</i Oh, no problem!!! I enjoy discussing things, and always welcome other opinions. :)

[meret.livejournal.com]

That scene between Lee and his Dad is even more problematic to me given what Ron Moore says in the podcast. Maybe we weren't meant to see Bill as being reassuring there??? *frowning in confusion*

if you assume that he's just gone completely insane and thinks he's somehow protected. I think it's a pretty weak excuse, though,

I agree. Plus, if he is totally insane, then it makes him far less interesting as a character to me.

[meret.livejournal.com]

but it's really not an ideal response to Lee's insecurities.

Yep. It was what Lee needed to hear in AoC, but he needed something different here IMO. In fact, I can see Bill, who by his own admission has not been the greatest of fathers, using the father/son bond again because it did work last time. I think my confusion in the scene is that JB plays it as if it is a reassuring answer IMO. If he had played it as if he was dissatisfied with the response Bill gave him, the scene would have made a lot more sense to me. I think I would have accepted it as a case of poor parenting skills, but in character for Bill.

[meret.livejournal.com]

Great commentary.

Thanks! :)

As for Lee and William Adama, my take on it was that Adama may have been trying to say that, as Lee's father, he knows what Lee is capable of and, therefore, has full confidence in him.

Good point! That would make a lot more sense to me. :)

the fact that he would see himself as some instrument of the gods fits right in with his arrogance.

Definitely! That shot made shudder.

Re: well now. aren't I talkative today

[meret.livejournal.com]

As long as, if such is the case, they don't get all "ahh, it's the messiah" about the future kid.

Yikes! I hope they don't go that way. IIRC, they did have a child of light or some such in the original. Ick. I'd totally forgotten that.

I don't think it was supposed to seem as if he were truly expressing faith in Lee's abilities. Adama doesn't know how to relate to Apollo through any other means, and I think part of the point of the scene was to emphasize that.

Have you heard Ron Moore's podcast or read Ilanabean's summary? I don't want to say anymore and spoil it. http://www.livejournal.com/community/13th_colony/40842.html?mode=reply

The only way he knows how to express to Apollo that he cares is by bringing up the fact that he loves him, and so it makes sense that he would say such a thing in such a moment. It's not necessarily about expressing faith; it's about saying, "look, I love you, okay? I care."

Well said!

I think that's keeping Adama in character, because the man has consistently been crappy at doing the whole father-son thing. And anyway, people saying the wrong thing at the wrong time is realistic. Honestly, I think it happens more often than people saying the right thing.

Absolutely! I think my problem stemmed more from the fact that, to me, JB played it as if Lee found that to be a statement of faith in him. I definitely don't want the characters to be perfect. For example, I had no problem with what Starbuck said to Lee pre-mission because it was in character. She could have been nicer and more diplomatic, but that's not who she is.

I also think that he is becoming a convert, if he isn't there already

I agree. I just think the transition could have been handled better.

[meret.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I didn't know that was a common trigger.

[cobaltbluetony.livejournal.com]

I disagree. The Celtic music reminded me of the plight of the fleet with its haunting-yet-pleasant tone. Here they are, trapped in ships in the middle of uncharted space, with psychotic AI robots that have just murdered 12 planets worth of humans and have morphed their own form into something alot more human chasing them though the galaxy, and they just won a solid victory, both militarily, and psycologically, for themselves. To me it was a sweet sad song that pined the isolated aspect of that lone true victory, and yet gave hope in the midst of dreadful circumstances overall. IF we are to identify with these characters, we have to be prepared to suspend our disbelief, even to the point that they can sing our songs and wear our ties and glasses, to tell us a story that is supposedly so distant from us.

Re: well now. aren't I talkative today

[stagelight311.livejournal.com]

Have you heard Ron Moore's podcast or read Ilanabean's summary?

Yeah, I did not long after I posted here, and was like, "ah, well then."

I think my problem stemmed more from the fact that, to me, JB played it as if Lee found that to be a statement of faith in him.

Understandable. I didn't think he played it correctly, myself (I think Lee definitely would have seen it to be the failed attempt it was, though he may have appreciated the fact that Adama tried), so my judgment of it was based more so on the nature of the dialogue and how EJO played it.

I just think the transition could have been handled better.

Well, I can't say I disagree with that, as much as I want to like him for some reason. I like, in many respects, where his character is being taken, but they definitely haven't been doing it as well as they could have. They seem to be jumping back and forth with him, using him as comic relief one week and as serious study the next. I mean, I don't have a problem with his eccentricities being played up for humor every now and then, but I'd rather he be one consistent character than two rolled up into one, and right now he seems more like the latter.