Cylons, Humans, and Philip K. Dick

[labingi.livejournal.com]

This is my first post on this community (which I've been enjoying lurking in). (Cross-posted in my LJ.)

I’ve been pondering the discourse of “humanity” and the “soul” developed in BSG episode 1.8 (“Flesh and Bone”) and why it makes me just a bit nervous. Spoilers up to that ep.

In this ep. more than any previous one, the series is posing the question: “How human are the Cylons?” It seems clear that they’re not identical to humans. docmichelle, in a comment on morwen_peredhil’s episode review on 13th_colony makes an excellent point that Boomer and Six mimic human emotions pretty well but don’t seem to get the overarching essence of human feeling. (Six confuses sex and love; Boomer doesn’t understand why Tyrol had to break up with her, etc.) This, however, leaves open the question of why (and to what extent) they are mentally and emotionally different from humans.

I see two possible types of explanation, which are respectively embodied in Blade Runner and the novel the film was based on, Philip K. Dick’s Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep. In Blade Runner, the Replicants are in essence emotionally human. The only difference is one of life experience: Replicants (presumably born with downloaded “adult” information) only exist for four years, so they never attain normal human maturity. But when they are given false memories, as Rachael is, they behave and feel exactly as a human with those memories would.

Now, we know that Galactica!Boomer, at least, has false memories (I don’t see evidence that most of the other Cylons we’ve met do). Yet Boomer still doesn’t behave quite like a “real” human, though she’s very close to it, close enough for Tyrol to fall in love with her. But even with Boomer, I wonder if her life experience has been anything like “normal.” If her false memories tell her that she came from a mining colony where all her family was killed, she might have “grown up” very isolated and somewhat dysfunctional as a human anyway. If I didn’t know she was a Cylon, I would see her behavior as well within the bounds of human possibility. In the mini, I never guessed that she was a Cylon until the big reveal. Her behavior seems to have become “less human” since then, but part of the that might be the strain of wondering if she is a Cylon. So I think the Blade Runner model might, indeed, be one possibility for Cylon consciousness.

But, on balance, the series seems to be favoring the position that the Cylons really are structurally different on an emotional level. We certainly haven’t been encouraged to view any of them as really normally “human.” This type of difference is more reminiscent of Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep. In this version of Dick’s story, the androids are genuinely incapable of becoming “human” because they almost wholly lack the basic quality that binds human society together: empathy, the ability to feel another’s feelings vicariously. Boomer’s inability to understand Tyrol’s guilt at one of his “kids” taking the fall to cover for his and Boomer’s relationship is perhaps the strongest indication we’ve seen that the Cylons may fit into a category analogous to Dick’s androids. On a basic level, they just don’t get it.

But whatever type of consciousness the Cylons have, the humans are faced with a morally difficult situation in dealing with them. And I don’t think the humans in 1.8 engaged with that moral complexity very well (though, from a narrative standpoint, I think it’s believable that they didn’t).

If Cylons are like Replicants, then they are basically humans with dysfunctional life and cultural experiences. If this is the case, torturing them and spacing them without any sort of due process is clearly as wrong as it would be if practiced against any human.

If the Cylons are like androids, the situation as murkier. These Cylons could not be “reformed.” They could not be integrated into human society. They very likely could not be negotiated with in a constructive way. They are more like dangerous things that need to be destroyed. Yet they can clearly feel pain and fear and can think on a complex level. And they have a system of morality among themselves, even though it’s one that’s highly suspect. They, therefore, can’t just be disposed of as one would disarm and dispose of a bomb.

In Do Androids Dream, Deckard kills androids for a living. This is arguably a morally defensible and even necessary occupation: since androids are basically psychopaths, they are a menace to human society. But here’s the kicker: androids are a menace because they don’t feel empathy. But for Deckard to chase down and shoot in cold blood a living, thinking, talking, feeling being, he must reject his own feelings of empathy. Normal human empathy says that you just don’t do that to your fellow beings. So by protecting humanity from the androids, Deckard is in constant danger of becoming no better than they are, of becoming an android himself.

Back to BSG: On one level, it doesn’t matter whether the Cylons deserve to die. It doesn’t matter whether they have souls or “real” feelings, or even if they must be eliminated for the future of human civilization. They act (more or less) human. To torture, deceive, and slaughter them, then, is fundamentally dehumanizing to the people doing those things. If you can do it to a Cylon who acts 85 percent human, what’s to stop you doing it to a human?

But it’s even trickier than this. We (and the BSG humans) don’t know if the Cylons are like androids or Replicants or something else again. Maybe they are categorically different from humans but not so different that they couldn’t theoretically be another “species” humans could make peace with. In my view, when you don’t know the status of a being you’re dealing with, it is very nearly always best to err on the side of the benefit of the doubt. If it acts human, assume it feels human. The BSG humans--for very understandable reasons--seem inclined to do the opposite. They want to believe that the race that destroyed their civilization is made up of “toasters,” of mere machines who can just mimic “souled” human beings. This, however, is exactly the type of thinking that for centuries led Europeans to conclude that black people were inferior, led men to conclude that women were inferior. And I can’t help but be reminded of Descartes who gave a justification to centuries of scientific torture of animals on the grounds that they were--sound familiar?--mere “machines.”

So, all in all, I’m concerned about the implications of the humans’ attitude toward the Cylons. I understand it. If they destroyed almost everything I knew and loved, I’d hate and want to destroy them too. It’s great storytelling to show this kind of credible response to a very complex situation. But it is a response that I find troubling.

Comments

[shetiger.livejournal.com]

Ooh. So much fascinating stuff. I want to respond, but most of it would be nodding, and I really have to run anyway.

But I love that the show raises the questions, even if those questions haven't occurred to the characters yet. The humans are mired in survival and fear and anger--they're clearly not positioned to be the shining examples of ethics and morality. The questions are there though, and I think they will be addressed by the characters. In interesting in complex ways.

[metamorphogenic.livejournal.com]

Great post! I haven't watched the entire series yet - I seen the Mini, and the last 3 eps, including 1.8. So I may be missing a couple of crucial pieces of backstory here.

I'm wondering if there has ever been discussion of Cylon brain structure? I understand that the "human" versions are, in fact, flesh and blood. I could probably go on at length about this subject, but I will just say that it depends on how you define consciousness. It's has fascinating theological implications, and could be seen as an allegorical tale of "The Creation", or however creationists refer to it.

From a purely mythological and archetypal standpoint, I love these types of stories. If you define the Cylons as aware, and all 'awareness' is part of God, then you'd have to accord the Cylons equivalent spiritual status to a human.

I'm not going to go into my take on creation mythology, because that's an entire post, but suffice it to say that the BSG story arc so far has some beautiful parallels.

[labingi.livejournal.com]

I would love to read posts on Cylon brain structure and the creation mythology in the series! I like the sort of Hegelian take that if awareness is part of God, then the Cylons (and humans) are, indeed, all part of God.

[metamorphogenic.livejournal.com]

As I get more caught up on the series, I'll probably start posting more of that kind of stuff. That's one of the main reasons I love this show so much - it's so rare to see these kinds of metaphysical questions tackled with any genuine seriousness.

[brightest-blue.livejournal.com]

Wow, you raise some fascinating questions. And these have frequently been raised by good sci-fi. Humans may feel completely justified in exterminating their non-human enemies, especially when the enemies have no compunctions about wiping out humanity itself. It becomes trickier when dealing with individuals though- just how "human" does the enemy have to be before it merits some sort of human rights?

This is also mirrored in current reality in the debate over what sort of soldier merits human rights protection- members of a "legitimate" military, supposedly; "terrorists" and mercenaries, apparently not. So it's almost less a question of what qualifies as human, as what qualifies as playing fair, or playing by the rules. Or maybe it's simply a question of what benefits the powers that be at any given time.

Another thing that's been nagging at me, more because of Boomer's rather than Six's behavior, is whether the cylons have outsmarted themselves much like the humans did with them. Were the cylons so successful in creating human-like models that they've lost control over them? For now, it appears that Six is more or less toeing the party line, but her religious fanaticism seems strong enough that at some point, I wonder if she will refuse to go along with Cylon directives if they seem to counter her beliefs. As far as Boomer is concerned, I wonder how deeply she can be embedded in human society without her sympathies remaining there. Just how controllable is she? It's obvious that she lacks some human perception, but if it's possible for Cylons to fall in love, where will their loyalties lie when push comes to shove?

I just love the endless questions this show raises!

[labingi.livejournal.com]

Another thing that's been nagging at me, more because of Boomer's rather than Six's behavior, is whether the cylons have outsmarted themselves much like the humans did with them. Were the cylons so successful in creating human-like models that they've lost control over them?

Interesting! I hadn't thought of that, but it certainly does look like it could be that way. I wonder if there's a statement in there (maybe unintentional?) to the effect that sufficiently high technology will always "get away" from its makers in the end. That seems a common--and understandable--fear in our culture right now. It will be fascinating to see how all this plays out in the series. Thanks for the insights!

[no-absolutes.livejournal.com]

that's an awesome icon. do you know a community for BSG graphics?

[brightest-blue.livejournal.com]

I've been getting all of my icons at [Bad username or site: @ livejournal.com], but some of the icon-makers there occasionally refer to their source materials. Good luck!

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

This is an absolutely fascinating post (and I thought this episode was also fascinating in alternately making us sympathize with and be repelled by Leoben - I can't spell his name though!!)

They want to believe that the race that destroyed their civilization is made up of “toasters,” of mere machines who can just mimic “souled” human beings. This, however, is exactly the type of thinking that for centuries led Europeans to conclude that black people were inferior, led men to conclude that women were inferior.

Well, yes, and also no ... I see, and absolutely agree with, the idea that dehumanizing your enemy dehumanizes you in a sense as well... (There is a great book by John Dower called War without Mercy, which is basically about US propaganda about the Japanese in World War II, and it's fascinating.) BUT there is another side to this - because your analogy leaves out the fact that black people didn't slaughter all but forty-five thousand Europeans, etc. Leoben was entirely unrepentant about the slaughter of billions of innocents - in fact he says they deserved it because humanity had lost its vision of god and the Cylons had come to replace them. And in this world, the Cylons seem more like the "colonizers", the people who gave smallpox covered blankets to the natives, or slaughtered them without mercy (so real-world analogies, I think, maybe don't work so well).

It's part of the brilliance of this episode, though, that I can be so torn by what I saw.

[labingi.livejournal.com]

Good points! It probably is best to be leery of those real life analogies. That said, perhaps it would be more apt to reverse the poles (since, as you point out, the humans are the oppressed minority here). The other day I caught a very interesting documentary on Malcolm X on PBS, which puts me in mind of the belief of the Nation of Islam (circa 1950) that white people were an embodiment of the devil. That might be a nearer analogy to how the humans feel about the Cylons. Of course, the Nation of Islam, to the best of my knowledge, never used that belief to justify violence against whites, except in clear cases of self-defense, so that's not a perfect analogy either. Maybe I should steer clear of the analogies!

But I do love that this story has relevance to real life moral and philosophical questions, even if close comparisons to real events are hard to come by.

[adn-heming.livejournal.com]

And in this world, the Cylons seem more like the "colonizers", the people who gave smallpox covered blankets to the natives, or slaughtered them without mercy

If I may play devil's advocate, we don't know exactly how the cylons were treated before/during their attainment of sentience. What was their intended role? War weapons? If they were *gaining* sentience, and their first memories are of being forced by HUMANS to kill each other, and of being killed, over and over and over again, then we might consider their position very similar to oppressed peoples during the colonial era. The difference is, it was the cylons who had the superior weapon technology.

This doesn't make their genocide right. It *does* call into question the cylons' motivations. Is the genocide, and continued persecution of the remaining human fleet a reaction to their first (collective?)memory of humans as threats to themselves?

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

Possibly, although I prefer the Occam's Razor approach (that's why I don't think Adama is really a Cylon, because we've seen no evidence that they can replace actual existing individuals with copies, etc.) - and since we don't know why the humans created the Cylons or what they were made to do, then I don't want to be in a position where I'm using something I've made up to even remotely justify their actions. What they say is not that they got tired of killing people or each other or whatever - they say that humans are corrupt, fallen on evil times, etc., and that their God has chosen them to replace humans and that's the basis for their genocidal campaign against humanity. Which really makes them much more religious fanatic than sinned against, for me...

Also, I would argue that even if they were somehow feeling brutalized by the humans who created them, this still wouldn't make them analogous to colonized peoples or even to slaves - because those individuals had cultures that existed independently of their colonisers, until the colonisers destroyed them along with the actual physical destruction of the people. The Cylons have no "independent" culture until, I suppose, recently when we have their belief in a new sort of god.

And getting back to Starbuck torturing the Cylon - as I said, on the one hand, it is repulsive to see someone you like very much doing something that's looks horrific; on the other hand, this is someone who exults unrepentantly in the destruction of much of what Starbuck holds dear (including presumably many of her friends, her family - however she feels about them - her entire civilization...) It's hard to blame her for acting as she does.

Again, though, it's a great episode - because it's made us all THINK so much ... I love it and I love the thoughtful post and discussion it's provoked!

[daygloparker.livejournal.com]

I find myself just sort of nodding dumbly because this is exactly what I've wanted to say, except far more eloquent than I ever could. It does remind of what the first model of Leoben told Adama in the mini: that, despite the trappings of civilization and progress that convince us that we are "good" and "upstanding" and "empathetic," human beings were still one step away from beating each to a pulp with clubs. Hobbesian, almost, if you squint hard enough.

[labingi.livejournal.com]

Interesting! That's a kind of unsettling thought. Someone on some forum was remarking a few days ago that they enjoyed BSG but didn't love it because it seemed to lack humor. I thought of that when I read your post because it is certainly a dark story in a lot of ways. (Not that dark can't incorporate humor--or that BSG totally lacks humor.) It sure is pretty high on the angst, which I like in my drama:)

Re: Where are we headed...

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

Heh! I don't think we're being set up to root for the Cylons, considering that the first action we see one of them perform is to watch Six snap a baby's neck (and I find the religious fanaticism and the justification of genocide and the destruction of billions of innocent lives another reason NOT to root for the Cylons' "loving and compassionate" god. Because s/he may be compassionate towards the Cylons, but I'm not really seeing where the teachings of this god lead them to be compassionate towards others.)

And is being an alcoholic (Tigh) really deserving of death? What about characters like Cally, Billy, Dualla, or my dear Captain Apollo? What have they done that's so bad we'd be rooting for their enemies to kill them?

So, interesting thought, but I just don't think we're being led that way.

Re: Where are we headed...

[labingi.livejournal.com]

Hm, your comment is really making me think. I agree with queenofthorns that we aren’t being set up to side with the Cylons, but I think you do raise some very interesting questions about the behavior of the humans. I’d like to think (and the show so far seems headed this way) that we’ll ultimately be able to sympathize to some degree with anybody. The Cylons may always be the side that is much more in the wrong in terms of their genocidal actions, but individual Cylons might be revealed as admirable characters, just as individual humans can be horrible.

Very eerie point about Starbuck seeming like an expert interrogator. She certainly does. And we know that the colonies were not a utopian society, as Zarek’s (sp?) disaffection illustrates. All the same, I wonder if Starbuck’s expertise was a bit of an oversight in the writing. What I mean is, apart from this episode, I don’t see any signs that she’s being pointed out as that kind of hardened person. Then again, it’s early in the series, so we might just not have seen it till this episode.

I did feel that Starbuck was somewhat “redeemed” by her final sympathy for Leoben. Actually, the character whose actions bothered me most was Roslin, not least because she is so often set up as the “nice” lady, the one who doesn’t want the prisoners to be treated like slaves, etc. I can understand Roslin’s decision to kill Leoben. His attempt to discredit Adama certainly evidences his danger as a source of misinformation. What I have trouble with is her decision to kill him by spacing him. This seems like an unnecessarily cruel way to kill someone. Though it may be over relatively quickly, it still seems like a nasty way to die. If Leoben had to die, why not just put a bullet through his head? It seems almost as if Roslin was taking the position that he was just a thing to be put out with the trash. Maybe she was trying to convince herself of that, since her dream certainly gives her reason to have more personal feelings for him. All I can say is, her decision creeped me out (as it was probably meant to).

Re: Where are we headed...

[stagelight311.livejournal.com]

I like the direction you've taken with this and I will admit that this episode made me stop and think about how we're really supposed to feel toward the Cylons. However, I can find a bit to disagree with, here, mostly the analysis of Starbuck. Her initial actions seemed very hard and cruel to me, but I don't think that, across the board, she was completely without compassion or remorse. The fact that she seemed a bit disturbed by Roslin's decision and then put her hand up to Leoben's before he died (not to mention the look that she gave him) suggests, to me, a development of sympathy (even, perhaps, empathy) for him. And if her prayers to the Lords of Kobol on his behalf were indeed said partly out of justification, well, people who don't feel as though they've done anything wrong don't need to justify their actions.

I think that this experience (combined with her experiences with the ship) is not so much intended to paint Starbuck in a negative light but is moreso intended to bring about, at the very least, a slight change in attitude. I don't think that she'll be looking at the Cylons in quite the same way after this, and that should prove very interesting.

As for Adama, I don't think that his initial decision to lie to the fleet about the new breed of Cylon was necessarily unscrupulous (but then, I don't think that lying is necessarily bad. There's a lot of gray area). Perhaps short-sighted, but his intentions were admirable and made sense. The panic that the truth could have caused might well have done a lot more damage to the surviving humans than the Cylons themselves could ever have done. Wouldn't allowing that to happen when he knew he could prevent it also be unscrupulous? It's rather tough to call. Perhaps the events of "Litmus" would not have happened if he had opted to let the entire fleet know the truth outright, but no one can predict the future. He did what he thought was most likely to benefit his people, and I think that such intentions are far more important than the fact that it wound up being a mistake.

As far as rooting for the Cylons goes, as others have said, I don't think that we're going to wind up completely rooting for them. I think it's going to be a far more situational thing; at times we'll be disliking the humans and at others we'll be disliking the Cylons. I don't think that the show is trying to set us up to root for one side or the other. Rather, it's setting us up to root for individual characters in individual situations, and, more importantly, it's trying to make us think about what really makes someone human.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I think the episode does consciously point towards this problem. Kara starts out claiming that Leoben is a thing, a "toaster", without a soul, something her gods could not possibly care about because it is an evil machine, not a sentient being like herself. She ends up praying for his soul, and even before that, we can see during the last time he's in the water bucket, that by this point she has become disgusted with herself (the way she tells the guards to let him up again). Moreover, the episode refuses to justify the torture by letting Kara discover something crucial through it - which is the big argument always used in the rethorical "if a terrorist could tell you about a ticking bomb" scenario. The only intel she gets is about herself, and something Leoben intends to tell her before she ever starts with the interrogation - that they're going to find Kobol.

Otoh, the ambiguity is also maintained by not letting the Cylon interrogated be someone like Boomer (either one) whom we know and like (presumably), but Leoben, who is explicitly shown to be unrepentant about the genocide. I think that's the challenge - to recognize that torture is wrong not just when it's applied to nice people one can identify with but to people who do in fact present a danger, who are unrepentant killers.

The difference between humans and Cylons, so far, seems to be that humans are capable of empathy. (Both Boomers are capable of feeling for the men they're having sexual relationships with, and the same is true for Six, but we've yet to see a Cylon feel sympathy for a human being outside that parameter, unless you see what Six does to the baby in the miniseries as a mercy killing.) With others, with people not their friends. And if they're giving that up, then there is indeed no moral difference in the long term...

[rheanna27.livejournal.com]

This is a fascinating post - thank you for sharing it. And it's made me think about Blade Runner as much as BSG (must dig out my old video of it - and wasn't Edward James Olmos in that, too?)

To play devil's advocate, though, in relation to one point -

Boomer and Six mimic human emotions pretty well but don’t seem to get the overarching essence of human feeling. (Six confuses sex and love; Boomer doesn’t understand why Tyrol had to break up with her, etc.)

...this may very well be true, but both Boomer and Six's mistakes are ones which *real* human characters could just as easily make or fool themselves into making, and so neither example, imho, is conclusive evidence. That said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if it turned out that Cylons "just don't get it" with respect to being human - it's just, at the minute, they're still (pleasingly) ambiguous.

[labingi.livejournal.com]

...this may very well be true, but both Boomer and Six's mistakes are ones which *real* human characters could just as easily make or fool themselves into making, and so neither example, imho, is conclusive evidence. That said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if it turned out that Cylons "just don't get it" with respect to being human - it's just, at the minute, they're still (pleasingly) ambiguous.

I agree that Boomer's and Six's behavior is well within the realm of human possibility. This also makes me think of Do Androids Dream in that one of the questions that book raises is whether the humans can actually distinguish androids from "schizoid" humans. With the Cylons, it's even more ambiguous because their behavior isn't "schizoid." If anything, it's just slightly "off." But that's a very subjective determination.

[no-absolutes.livejournal.com]

what a thoughtful post, this is exactly what i love about BSG and quality sf tv shows. they make you think as hard as the really good stories like the ones by PKD.
for me, the dilemma is more than whether or not the Cylons are human-- i think of them as children. not in the sense that they're juvenile or immature like the Blade Runner replicants, but their relationship with all of humanity is like children's with their parents. unlike animals or the robots and appliances we think of as just machines, humans created Cylons essentially to reproduce themselves in a way that would be serviceable. whenever i see this sort of question about how human a robot/alien human in sci-fi is, i think of slavery. in BSG, when the race humans invented became autonomous and rebelled, humans realized they hadn't just invented an extension of themselves, they incorporated whole real people into their society without giving them control over their own lives. the problem for taking revenge on the Cylons seems to be whether humans could forgive themselves for creating such an enemy. war is kind of always like that. so i think the Cylons are as human as they need to be to make the conflict necessary. the empathy stuff is kind of beside the point, because nothing in the Cylons' experience leads them to empathize with humans-- it's not that they're incapable, but the ones who are trying, like Boomer, are just getting the hang of it.

[tinny]

Very very interesting discussion. I adore BSG because of the deep thoughts and ambiguity. There really is a huge backstory and myth behind it all that you seldom find on tv (scifi or no). I agree with the poster who said that the purpose of the episode was mostly to show that torture is bad, even if done by someone you like to someone you dislike.

Ron Moore's journal also clearly states that what Starbuck and Roslin do in this episode is very wrong.

About the Philip K Dick... wasn't one of the points in the movie that Deckard himself was a replicant? (The whole unicorn-in-his-dream thing). I only read half of the book, and I don't remember much of it, so I can't really say much there. And since you say that replicants are capable of empathy anyway, it also wouldn't change Deckard's feelings or actions.

Personally, I think that Boomer and Six are not far from human in their behaviour. Not that the Cylons' genocidal actions can be justified - but humans, especially fanatic humans, are capable of genocide as well.

I don't even think it can be said that Galactica!Boomer doesn't understand why Tyrol breaks up with her. I haven't seen KLG yet, so maybe I'm missing something. She looks weirded out, but it could be for all kinds of reasons. She loves him, after all.

[labingi.livejournal.com]

Good points! I agree that if we didn't know that Boomer was a Cylon, we'd find her behavior well within a plausible human range. That, in itself, raises interesting questions about what it means--or should mean--to be "human."

Yes, Blade Runner does suggest that Deckard is a Replicant. This sort of happens in the book too. As far as I remember (it's been a while), there's a point where he is questioning whether his own ability to work as a professional killer indicates that he's an android. The two stories use these moves to different ends though: in the film, the message seems to be that Replicants are just as good as humans. In the book, it seems to be that humans may be just as bad as androids.

[tinny]

Thanks for clearing up the intents of book and film for me. Even though they seem different, they're both very similar points, I guess. And both very cool and intriguing to think about.