Colonial Day ramblings
Mar. 20th, 2005 11:20 pm![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
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13thcolonyI'm watching Colonial Day for the, what?, 5th time in 24 hours. I don't even know how many times I watched Hand of God.
Ramblings on Colonial Day
I've read a lot about there being a precedent for Lee’s somewhat out-of-control anger. While I agree that we have seen him lose his temper on several occasions (at his father in the mini, Zarek in Bastille Day, Tigh in You Can’t Go Home Again), he still manages to maintain some sort of control over himself. He raised his voice to his father but he never screamed at him. He was still capable of rational thought about election policies in the midst of holding a gun on Zarek, and while he was obviously upset with Tigh (and for obvious reasons), he wasn’t actually mean to him. So I’ll grant the point that the boy's got a temper, but the screaming and the throwing of briefcases still seems a bit excessive and OOC.
Speaking of OOC, I was a bit confused initially about 1) Apollo’s malicious comments provoking the bar fight, B) why Starbuck and Apollo are sitting in a bar drinking while (presumably) on duty, and lastly, why they aren’t sitting together in said bar, which seems odd (why would two people who are presumably friends be drinking alone in the same room). Is it possible that the entire bar fight was a setup to flush out an assasin? Lee may have suspected Grimes after their earlier confrontation and had him followed and set up to reveal himself. Either catching Valance was just an added bonus, or maybe they suspected that any of Grimes’ associates would come to his aid. It would explain why Starbuck was sitting across the room but still watching what was going on with Apollo, and the "you are people. sort of" comments to provoke Grimes. I suppose.
I find Zarek rather irritating in much the same way that I find, say, republicans, irritating (though it's interesting that he's got some rather communist-leaning veiwpoints with which, normally, I would agree). His rhetoric sounds good enough on its face but there’s just something missing. He does make some good points, especially in his second wireless speech--there has been a drastic change in their culture and way of life, and social structures and people’s thinking need to adapt to the new reality in a way that I’m sure they haven’t been able to yet. Issues like employment and education and allocation of resources need to be dealt with on this new level. But there’s really no evidence that the current gov’t isn’t thinking about these issues. Besides, they’ve been a bit busy for the past 46 days working on that thing where they, what is it? Oh yeah, keep everyone ALIVE. Zarek seems to be the character most holding on to old ideas about society. He’s using the existing political structure to attain power (without mentioning how that is also out of date). And he’s still trying to make the case for the downtrodden against the oppressors, the poor versus the rich. Talk about “holding on to a fantasy”! The dichotomy of rich/poor no longer really exists in a society where the money is useless and the only real valuables are food, water and clothing (which should be communal resources at this point). They’ve already got a kind of de facto communism. This isn’t really an “oppression” situation, as I doubt anyone is being denied equal share of resources. But the fact that some may feel this way—a la the Geminon ships’ water rations—is what makes Zarek’s propaganda so appealing to many. Anyway, his logic is irritating. I do like that they aren't afraid that an evil!human character will distract from the bad guys (see below, re: complexity).
Watching Zarek and Roslin interact at the ball, it seems that he may have some respect for the prez, at least after watching her utilize her political skills. There was no real reason for him to confess that he didn’t kill the assassin (which seems sincere; I believe, at least, that he didn’t kill Valence himself. This doesn’t mean that Zarek’s not glad he’s dead, though.), except that maybe he sees her as a worthy opponent now and he wanted to warn her that she may have a traitor in her midst. Either that or he’s trying to frack with her head. (As my father said last night, while channeling Yogi Berra, “It either means that, or it means something else.”)
I wasn’t able to avoid most spoilers for this episode (The Dress and VP elections and we’ve all seen the caps of the garden hose scene), but I’m glad that I didn’t get spoiled for Helo’s revelation. For whatever reason, people don’t seem to care much about the Helo/Caprica!Boomer storyline, so that’s probably why. Though, really, if he didn’t figure things out after he saw Caprica!Boomer2, I was also done caring about him, because, hello? Stupid, much? Also, my heart skipped a little beat when Helo was advancing his theories on Cylon cloning and Caprica!Boomer starts to defend them “You know, if they were human clones that means they’re capable of…”, because I thought she said “if WE were human clones” blown her cover. You know, I kind of like this storyline, but I don’t ever really remember it from week to week. It’s like a big surprise every time we see Caprica for the first time in an episode. I go, “Oh yeah. Helo! I forgot.”
I love that you can still see Kara’s black eye under her makeup. I’m not really sure what to say about this scene, despite the fact that I thought it was fabulous. The look on his face was just…. Hee! I’m sure he forgets, most of the time, that she’s a girl. Which, IMO, is as it should be, because she’s at work, yo. And as a woman who works surrounded by men ALL THE FRACKING TIME, I don’t want to be a girl at work. Because when all they guys are thinking about me as a girl, we’re not getting any work done. Or at least they’re not. Of course, this does present some problems when you want them to remember that you’re a girl…
Gaeta dancing is soooo funny. Don’t the women have to wear dress uniforms to formal occasions? It seems like the men do. But then, Tyrol’s not in uniform either, so maybe they’re optional (unless enlisted personnel don’t have dress uniforms? They seemed pretty scruffy at, say, the decommissioning ceremony, when everyone else was in class A’s) What do you suppose the rules are on this in, say, the US military?
You never see Lee’s face when he’s dancing with Kara. I wonder if that was deliberate. If so, what is that about?
Ellen: I have a surprise for you.
Tigh: Uh oh, should I be worried?
Me: YES!
I remember there was some flack about Lee’s line in Tigh Me Up: “If she’s not a Cylon, we’re all in trouble (or something like that).” But it makes perfect sense (especially given recent developments). If she is a Cylon, they can just wash her out an airlock and be done with her. If she’s human, though, they have to actually deal with her and her irritating personality and Evil Scheming. I actually hope she’s not a Cylon, because if she is, it makes the situation way too black-and-white. I like that the Cylons don’t have a monopoly on being evil. I’d even like to allow for the possibility that they may have a point, or even be in the right. I’m not too worried about the balance with this show, though, because we’ve already seen that there are humans with character flaws, frailties and even Evil Schemes, just as we are given the possibility of reformed, no-longer-evil Cylons in Caprica!Boomer. I just love the layers of complexity they keep adding to this show.
Wow. That was WAY longer than I thought it would be. I'll shut up now.
Ramblings on Colonial Day
I've read a lot about there being a precedent for Lee’s somewhat out-of-control anger. While I agree that we have seen him lose his temper on several occasions (at his father in the mini, Zarek in Bastille Day, Tigh in You Can’t Go Home Again), he still manages to maintain some sort of control over himself. He raised his voice to his father but he never screamed at him. He was still capable of rational thought about election policies in the midst of holding a gun on Zarek, and while he was obviously upset with Tigh (and for obvious reasons), he wasn’t actually mean to him. So I’ll grant the point that the boy's got a temper, but the screaming and the throwing of briefcases still seems a bit excessive and OOC.
Speaking of OOC, I was a bit confused initially about 1) Apollo’s malicious comments provoking the bar fight, B) why Starbuck and Apollo are sitting in a bar drinking while (presumably) on duty, and lastly, why they aren’t sitting together in said bar, which seems odd (why would two people who are presumably friends be drinking alone in the same room). Is it possible that the entire bar fight was a setup to flush out an assasin? Lee may have suspected Grimes after their earlier confrontation and had him followed and set up to reveal himself. Either catching Valance was just an added bonus, or maybe they suspected that any of Grimes’ associates would come to his aid. It would explain why Starbuck was sitting across the room but still watching what was going on with Apollo, and the "you are people. sort of" comments to provoke Grimes. I suppose.
I find Zarek rather irritating in much the same way that I find, say, republicans, irritating (though it's interesting that he's got some rather communist-leaning veiwpoints with which, normally, I would agree). His rhetoric sounds good enough on its face but there’s just something missing. He does make some good points, especially in his second wireless speech--there has been a drastic change in their culture and way of life, and social structures and people’s thinking need to adapt to the new reality in a way that I’m sure they haven’t been able to yet. Issues like employment and education and allocation of resources need to be dealt with on this new level. But there’s really no evidence that the current gov’t isn’t thinking about these issues. Besides, they’ve been a bit busy for the past 46 days working on that thing where they, what is it? Oh yeah, keep everyone ALIVE. Zarek seems to be the character most holding on to old ideas about society. He’s using the existing political structure to attain power (without mentioning how that is also out of date). And he’s still trying to make the case for the downtrodden against the oppressors, the poor versus the rich. Talk about “holding on to a fantasy”! The dichotomy of rich/poor no longer really exists in a society where the money is useless and the only real valuables are food, water and clothing (which should be communal resources at this point). They’ve already got a kind of de facto communism. This isn’t really an “oppression” situation, as I doubt anyone is being denied equal share of resources. But the fact that some may feel this way—a la the Geminon ships’ water rations—is what makes Zarek’s propaganda so appealing to many. Anyway, his logic is irritating. I do like that they aren't afraid that an evil!human character will distract from the bad guys (see below, re: complexity).
Watching Zarek and Roslin interact at the ball, it seems that he may have some respect for the prez, at least after watching her utilize her political skills. There was no real reason for him to confess that he didn’t kill the assassin (which seems sincere; I believe, at least, that he didn’t kill Valence himself. This doesn’t mean that Zarek’s not glad he’s dead, though.), except that maybe he sees her as a worthy opponent now and he wanted to warn her that she may have a traitor in her midst. Either that or he’s trying to frack with her head. (As my father said last night, while channeling Yogi Berra, “It either means that, or it means something else.”)
I wasn’t able to avoid most spoilers for this episode (The Dress and VP elections and we’ve all seen the caps of the garden hose scene), but I’m glad that I didn’t get spoiled for Helo’s revelation. For whatever reason, people don’t seem to care much about the Helo/Caprica!Boomer storyline, so that’s probably why. Though, really, if he didn’t figure things out after he saw Caprica!Boomer2, I was also done caring about him, because, hello? Stupid, much? Also, my heart skipped a little beat when Helo was advancing his theories on Cylon cloning and Caprica!Boomer starts to defend them “You know, if they were human clones that means they’re capable of…”, because I thought she said “if WE were human clones” blown her cover. You know, I kind of like this storyline, but I don’t ever really remember it from week to week. It’s like a big surprise every time we see Caprica for the first time in an episode. I go, “Oh yeah. Helo! I forgot.”
I love that you can still see Kara’s black eye under her makeup. I’m not really sure what to say about this scene, despite the fact that I thought it was fabulous. The look on his face was just…. Hee! I’m sure he forgets, most of the time, that she’s a girl. Which, IMO, is as it should be, because she’s at work, yo. And as a woman who works surrounded by men ALL THE FRACKING TIME, I don’t want to be a girl at work. Because when all they guys are thinking about me as a girl, we’re not getting any work done. Or at least they’re not. Of course, this does present some problems when you want them to remember that you’re a girl…
Gaeta dancing is soooo funny. Don’t the women have to wear dress uniforms to formal occasions? It seems like the men do. But then, Tyrol’s not in uniform either, so maybe they’re optional (unless enlisted personnel don’t have dress uniforms? They seemed pretty scruffy at, say, the decommissioning ceremony, when everyone else was in class A’s) What do you suppose the rules are on this in, say, the US military?
You never see Lee’s face when he’s dancing with Kara. I wonder if that was deliberate. If so, what is that about?
Ellen: I have a surprise for you.
Tigh: Uh oh, should I be worried?
Me: YES!
I remember there was some flack about Lee’s line in Tigh Me Up: “If she’s not a Cylon, we’re all in trouble (or something like that).” But it makes perfect sense (especially given recent developments). If she is a Cylon, they can just wash her out an airlock and be done with her. If she’s human, though, they have to actually deal with her and her irritating personality and Evil Scheming. I actually hope she’s not a Cylon, because if she is, it makes the situation way too black-and-white. I like that the Cylons don’t have a monopoly on being evil. I’d even like to allow for the possibility that they may have a point, or even be in the right. I’m not too worried about the balance with this show, though, because we’ve already seen that there are humans with character flaws, frailties and even Evil Schemes, just as we are given the possibility of reformed, no-longer-evil Cylons in Caprica!Boomer. I just love the layers of complexity they keep adding to this show.
Wow. That was WAY longer than I thought it would be. I'll shut up now.
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no subject
Date: 2005-03-21 05:07 am (UTC)i didn't see it as a confession--more like, "i frakking didn't kill him, which means i think YOU or your people did, which means i'm certainly going to use this to drag you through the mud when we have elections in a few months." more a threat than a confession.
Besides, they’ve been a bit busy for the past 46 days working on that thing where they, what is it? Oh yeah, keep everyone ALIVE.
yeah, totally! zarek struck me as being rather unrealistic himself for that reason too (among others).
no subject
Date: 2005-03-21 05:47 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-03-21 03:21 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-03-21 07:53 pm (UTC)Besides, if we're to be upset over something like this, we ought to be upset over the fact that the ranking system on the Galactica isn't proper but rather a hybrid of various military rankingm systems in our society and, say, over the fact that Tyrol pulls the "right to remain silent" card in "Litmus" when, in our society, military personnel don't have that right.
no subject
Date: 2005-03-22 02:40 am (UTC)See, I'm one of those who didn't find it OOC at all. He didn't actually scream, for example, he just yelled and looked really furious (and willing to beat the frak out of Valence, which he didn't actually do. He never even hit the guy, that we could see).
But then, I think Queen of Thorns explained why he's so wigged pretty well in her ep analysis. Lee has to be thinking that this is all his fault. Zarek's a danger to the Fleet, and to the President, and to the whole fragile social fabric. And Lee is the one who let him live. He took a gamble with the guy, he tried to believe that the man who wrote the banned books that he read and found elements to agree with was more than a power-hungry revolutionary willing to kill to get his way...
So, yeah, knowing that makes Lee angry. As well he should be. Zarek's made him look foolish for going with his instincts in Bastille Day. That was a bold, unpredictable, not-at-all-by-the-books decision he made and it seems to have backfired. So, I bet he's got a lot of pent up anger about it, which you can also see in his getting in Zarek's face and letting him know he's watching him.
no subject
Date: 2005-03-22 05:34 am (UTC)That was a bold, unpredictable, not-at-all-by-the-books decision he made and it seems to have backfired.
This certainly makes sense, especially given that we've seen recently (in HoG) how little Lee trusts his instincts. To have them proven wrong so spectacularly would prey on anyone's insecurities. His anger here could be a cover for his insecurities, as well as an outward sign of his guilt at letting Zarek live and protectiveness of Roslin (as QueenofThorns argued).
(Of course, it's usually Starbuck who covers her fears and insecurities with anger and recklessness, and the picking of fights. They still seem to be a bit in role reversal mode from HoG: This time it's Lee being all angry and impulsive and Kara being somewhat reflective and rational with regards to Valance/Zarek. Not that she has as much emotional involvement in the scenario.)
I guess the only thing that's still bugging me is the manner in which Lee picked said bar fight. (And here is where I'm not expressing myself very well. The only word I can think of is "mean" and that's not really sufficient to describe his behavior.) I still argue that even when he's been provoked to anger in the past, he's not "mean" about it. He says things to make a point, as part of the argument, not just to get a dig in--which is fitting to his usual role as the "talk-about-it, think-about-it" guy. The "You're people. Sort of." remark seemed deliberately inflammatory.
no subject
Date: 2005-03-22 11:37 am (UTC)It's not that you weren't clear, really. I actually don't believe that Lee has hidden simmering rage in general. I know lots of people do, but I don't. He gets angry for specific reasons, when people have hurt him by a particular action or betrayed his trust, not just at random. That's what makes his showing that anger on occasion (including CD) not OOC to me.
(Of course, it's usually Starbuck who covers her fears and insecurities with anger and recklessness, and the picking of fights. They still seem to be a bit in role reversal mode from HoG: This time it's Lee being all angry and impulsive and Kara being somewhat reflective and rational with regards to Valance/Zarek. Not that she has as much emotional involvement in the scenario.)
Well, but how is Lee shown to not be "rational" re: Valence and Zarek? He doesn't hit Valence, he doesn't hurt him at all. All he does is play Super Bad Cop to Starbuck's Bad Cop. She's quieter, but she says things that are equivalent to what he says. They're in sync, one making the guy feel like one of them is a little bit "nicer" and the other making sure he knows he's ready to kick his ass. So I don't see either Lee being irrational (which implies he's lost his ability to interpret facts objectively, which he has not)--he's the one leading the effort to figure out what Valence and Zarek are up to).
I still argue that even when he's been provoked to anger in the past, he's not "mean" about it. He says things to make a point, as part of the argument, not just to get a dig in--which is fitting to his usual role as the "talk-about-it, think-about-it" guy. The "You're people. Sort of." remark seemed deliberately inflammatory.
Again, I guess I just see it differently. The Zarek supporter was spoiling for a fight. Lee just didn't do anything to avoid one. I don't see that as either being "mean" or "picking" the fight. THe guy had thrown insults at Lee, Lee responded in kind. It's obvious he's fed up with Zarek's lies and with his fellow travelers like that particular guy, who had already roughed up a dissenter earlier that day.
For me, Lee's actions, while a definite display of anger, were nothing more than venting. The Zarek bully wanted a confrontation and he got one. It was fueled by Lee's resentment over how Zarek has ruined Lee's efforts to give him a chance and find a third way between his dad and Roslin, sure, but other than that I don't see it as being about Angry!Lee. He just finally said what he really thought, and decided that if that led to a fight with a bully, he was fine with that. It probably made him feel better in terms of venting.
And given how that guy acted like he could impose his views on everyone else and the contempt he express towards Lee specifically, it didn't seem "mean" to me. It's the guy who picks the fight by getting personal and inflammatory with Lee right off the bat, actually. Besides, they both already knew they'd be trading punches by that point, so that's Apollo doing some trash talk. I liked it, personally. ;)
no subject
Date: 2005-03-23 06:42 am (UTC)It makes me like him a bit less because he’s not always polite and nice. He doesn’t always have control of his anger, even in situations where I think he should (like dealing with the citizenry while representing the president and the military as the security detail). His loss of control at his father over Zack or at Tigh over Starbuck are more-or-less understandable to me, and not because of the motivations behind the blow-ups (which are equally as valid as his gripes here). It’s that clashes with family, friends, and even a superior officer are one thing, but provoking the public while on duty is just…unprofessional. Someone in his position should be able to see the bigger picture, step back and handle obnoxious assholes with class. When dealing with the general public, if it felt good to say it, it was the wrong thing to say. I don’t like to see people in positions of responsibility acting all immature and snit-y. In RL, of course, this happens all the time, but I would still be either mildly irritated or completeley disgusted (or somewhere in between) by anyone who behaved in this manner.
The problem here is that I like Lee, and I want to go on liking him. His behavior caused a bit of cognitive dissonance for me, which my brain tried to resolve by interpreting the events as OOC. Plus, I’m not used to seeing TV characters behave this way: usually the hero doesn’t act in a way that decreases audience sympathy for him/her. Real people (whom Ron Moore claims to be attempting to portray here), on the other hand, have flaws, make mistakes and aren’t perfect. This doesn't make his behavior appropriate or even very smart, but neither does it make his reactions OOC.
You win! ;-)
no subject
Date: 2005-03-23 03:37 am (UTC)Where Lee's temper comes in is that I think he took the situation very personally on a couple of levels. He does seem protective of Roslin and worried that she will be hurt, but I also think he feels personally betrayed by Zarek. Before Bastille Day, he'd been impressed by Zarek. He thought Zarek had some good ideas. But then when they met in person and he found out that Zarek was just a grandstanding anarchist out for personal glory rather than any kind of high-minded, big-thinking idealist, I think Lee felt betrayed and let down. The times we've seen Lee lose his cool, it's generally been at times when he's felt let down by someone he thought he could believe in. He couldn't really go ballistic on Zarek in this situation, but he could take it out on the people he saw falling for Zarek's lines. The plan may have been to just goad them into saying something, maybe into giving the military an excuse to arrest them so they wouldn't be a threat, but Lee took it a little too far because he was too personally involved. I don't think the others (like Kara) realized just how personally he was taking it because he does keep such a tight hold on his temper in most situations.
The other times Lee has lost it or come close to losing it were with his father, whom he definitely believes has let him down, and with Tigh when Kara was lost. It appears that Tigh is someone he's known since childhood, so it's possible he felt betrayed when "Uncle Saul" didn't take his side.
As for the interrogation, my guess is most of it was for show, but a lot of it was spillover from the fight. He still had a lot of adrenaline working, and then there was still that sense of personal betrayal by Zarek. He couldn't scream and throw things at Zarek, so he did it to Zarek's follower.
no subject
Date: 2005-03-23 06:58 am (UTC)Yes, they actually show three or four shots of her watching Lee. I hadn't realized, though, that the scene where Roslin wanted Zarek supporters watched was before the bar fight scene. It was totally a set up. :)
He couldn't scream and throw things at Zarek, so he did it to Zarek's follower.
I was actually thinking about misplaced anger and transference when your comment popped up! I can definitely see Lee being angry at Grimes in the bar and Valance in the interrogation, but there is a deeper current of feeling there that makes more sense directed at Zarek or even at himself (for the choices he made in Bastille Day vis-a-vis Zarek).
The times we've seen Lee lose his cool, it's generally been at times when he's felt let down by someone he thought he could believe in.
I hadn't considered this commonality among the Lee Anger Incidents before, but this makes sense!