Speculative comment/question on BSG

[leadensky.livejournal.com]

Concerning Kara Thrace and the men in her life - no spoilers past 'Colonial Day.'

Okay, trying to suss out the influences on Kara's life, and who she was and who she is becoming. What I really want to know is not exactly about Kara, but about Zack, and what she saw in Zack.

(The last thing I want to do here is get into a bashing contest on any of the characters. Let's take as given that all characters have their flaws and virtues, and accept that Kara really loved Zack.)

Lee, as we have seen already, is just a bit tightly wound, and tightly reserved. Someone else made the observation that (esp compared to Kara) Lee is a prude. Or - inhibited enough by his (new) command position and (on-going) position as the son of the great William Adama so that tumbling into the rack with any gal who walked by is just not in the cards. I tend to think that if their positions were reversed that Lee would not have put the moves on a superior officer/training instructor, even if he felt deeply for her.

(I'm going to default to him/her and het relationships. If, for the purposes of this discussion, it pleases the reader to assume the possibility of a same-sex relationship in this universe for Kara or Lee or, hell, Col Tigh - feel free.)

We've had a hint that Zack took after his father a bit more than Lee did, but also a broader indication that Lee and Kara are friends from way back.

So what I'm wondering what was the difference, that made a spark between Kara and Zach but not Lee and Kara?

Lee is (obviously at this point) a highly gifted pilot, if a far more cerebral one than Starbuck (or his father?) I think it's possible that Zack inherited the attitude but not the skills to back it up. Or that Zack (as younger sons sometimes do) faced less scrutiny growing up, and so was more self-confident than his older brother. I could certainly see a cocky young pilot propositioning his flight instructor on a bet, or just to try his luck.

On the other hand, it could be that Kara was the aggressor, even though that kind of unprofessional behavior - oh, what the hell am I saying? This is Kara Thrace, born to not toe the line. It probably *was* her, and quite possibly after she got a wave-off from Lee. (Or maybe not the instant "Sure, how bout right now?" that she was expecting in response to her "Hey, good-looking, wanna frack?") So little brother comes along, with much of what she likes about Lee, but hey! A bit more aggressive, if sloppy around the edges. And willing to take her up on the offer.

And then, of course, there maybe no telling what made her go from thinking "hot stick, fun frack" to "I want to spend the rest of my life married to this man." Love is strange.

Of course, I have *completely* let alone the relationship between Kara and Adama, and Kara and Tigh. I'm pretty sure both are strongly affected by the aftermath of Zack's death, but I feel pretty confident that neither is (much) a romantic/friendship relationship - in other words, the niches Lee and Zack fill/filled in Kara's life are very different than those filled by Adama or Tigh, while Lee's and Zack's positions re: Kara are similar.

Your thoughts?

Update - via kerlin, there was a discussion of the same topic a few weeks back in another lj. No spoilers after "Colonial Day", but watch the comments, as more could have been added. (Downloaders. I swear. *shakes head*)

Update to update - comments [in the discussion linked above] do have spoilers for the whole season thus far. (not huge, more character building than plot, if that makes a diff. Frack.) (edited for clarification

Comments

[zorb]

I think we have to keep in mind that all of them were different people before Zak's death. Younger!Kara and Younger!Lee just might not have clicked that way, while Y!Kara and Zak did.

[schwester655.livejournal.com]

You're right that they were different people before Zack's accident, but that may have more to do with why there's more of a possiblity for a relationship between Lee and Kara now than with their attraction or lack thereof. That seems like an awful lot of spark to have suddenly appeared after two years of not seeing each other preceded by what was probably a very hurtful argument.

[leadensky.livejournal.com]

That seems like an awful lot of spark to have suddenly appeared after two years of not seeing each other preceded by what was probably a very hurtful argument.

I didn't get the impression that there was so much anger between Kara and Lee. More of a...convenient non-communication. If they had not physically moved apart, I think they would have kept their old ways of interacting. (I didn't get the impression that Lee was assigned to instructor duty - he was probably in a different but local unit? I think?)

In contrast, Lee and Adama definately had a falling out.

In both cases, I think, enough time has passed that Lee is making *new* relationships rather than simply renewing old ones.

- hg

[schwester655.livejournal.com]

I didn't get the impression that there was so much anger between Kara and Lee. More of a...convenient non-communication.

There may not have been a lot of anger, per se, but re-watching the scene in the brig from the mini, I feel like they definitely had some sort of confrontation around the time of the funeral, possibly about the way Lee was treating his father (especially since Lee was blaming his father for Zack's death and Kara knew she should share some of that blame). Their conversation feels like ground they've already been over: "Kara, don't even start." "How long you gonna do this?" "Same old Lee. You haven't changed either." I get the feeling this is an old argument, or perhaps one they postponed.

So I think whatever they might have between them now, it's influenced by their past relationship, though the flavor of it might have changed. At the end of that scene, after she says she's "getting the urge to hit another superior asshole", Lee gives her this great, smiley look that's totally out of place for the whole argument that seems to say "That's the way it's going to be because that's the way it always goes, and I really want to smack you because you drive me crazy, but I'm glad you haven't changed that much." Or something like that.

Ok, that made more sense in my head, I swear.

[leadensky.livejournal.com]

You are right about that scene, I think.

Postponed, I think. Or else, having spent the last two years with Adama, Kara has even less patience with Lee's attitude towards his father, on top of her knowledge that the blame is mislaid. (Am I making sense? At the time of the accident/funeral, Kara knew that Lee was blaming Adama for something that wasn't Adama's fault. But *now* Lee's blaming the man she's come to respect, the man that treats her like a daughter. So it's even more complicated.)

Which would go with the tension we saw in SB that wasn't in Lee in this scene - I think SB has changed a lot more in the last few years than Lee had. And what's new is her relationship with Adama. Lee's been angry at his father his whole life, so there's not much new there.

Umm. This sound at all plausible to you?

- hg

[leadensky.livejournal.com]

I'll buy that people change as they get older. Just for the sake of thinking about it, what sort of people do you think the younger versions were, and how were they different than before?

- hossgal

[zorb]

Actually, widget285's recent fic was pretty close to my interpretation of their younger selves. I think both Lee and Kara were very career-driven at that point - in the Academy, time of peace, world is their oyster and all that. Neither of them were looking for romance. Lee, especially, hadn't had the pain of losing a loved one to make him look more closely at and value what he had. (Kara, too - we'd need to know more about her childhood to be more certain, though.)

They didn't have the fate of humanity riding on their shoulders; they weren't as grown up. In a nutshell, I see them as being more idealistic back then - and it seems like Zak, with his pursuit of a profession that he wasn't really suited for, embodied that idealism most perfectly of the three. I think Kara would have been drawn to that, particularly given her childhood.

[leadensky.livejournal.com]

Title of the fic? (link?)

Interesting thoughts - I like this image of Zack as the dreamer, especially compared to Lee, who likely over thought things back then, too.

- hg

[zorb]

Link. :-)

[leadensky.livejournal.com]

Thank you muchly!

I won't discuss the fic plot so much here (I did like it). But thank you for the link!

- hg