BSG 1.10 - "The Hand of God"

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

OK, first of all, the ARMS (!!!) are back and they're better than ever ... Apollo should lean on things a lot because, whoa, those were some nice shots! OK, now onto some actual thoughts. I'm not talking about the whole episode, seeing as there's a LeeCap coming up for that (AND HOW!! 120 pictures, people! I've uploaded 120 pictures...) so I just want to focus on two of the pivotal scenes and on the varying interpretation of the titles.

This may have been what Ron Moore calls a "Big Mac" of an episode, but there are three wonderfully subtle and ambiguous things that I absolutely adored. First of all, the title itself - "the hand of god" - who is it referring too? The episode opens with the President's prophetic vision of twelve serpents (I'm a snake-o-phobe - I hope that wasn't poor Mary McDonnell in the scene!) and the priestess telling her about the prophecy; and it closes with Six telling Baltar that the twelve Vipers in Strike Force 2 (yes, I've seen this episode enough times that I counted when the lid blasts off the freighter - which is just So. Damn. Cool, by the way!) represent the snakes and of course, in the interim, let's not forget that it's the hand of Apollo (named for a god) that actually destroys the base. Baltar thinks he's an instrument of whatever he perceives as the Cylon God; the President may feel SHE'S the instrument of the Colonials' god(s), chosen by fate to lead them to the promised land. And we just don't know whether both or either of them is right. I love that.

Next - the interactions between Starbuck and Apollo. I love the scene where Starbuck is briefing Apollo and it turns into this nasty little game of one-upmanship. LOVE it! Why? I adore Starbuck, but I have to say that she was both deliberately cruel and astoundingly short-sighted in that conversation she has with Lee. First of all, she's his best and really, ONLY, friend (in the sense of being equals and contemporaries, anyway) on "Galactica" (and she clearly views him as a friend as well) and it's just harsh to be so visibly doubting that your friend can pull of the mission when there is just no-one else who can go. Secondly, there's the fact that the Fate of Humanity is riding on this mission, so making the guy who's leading that mission a little MORE nervous about the whole thing than he already is - also extremely harsh (and short-sighted). But so, so, so human and true to character!

I've watched this scene lots of times (as this is one of my favorite episodes of the season) and I understand that Starbuck is worried because of the loss of control. And possibly because she thinks Lee will get the job done, but maybe die doing it (it's clear that people are going to die during this mission; there's a moment when they're explaining the plan to the President when Tigh says there will be losses and Lee bows his head and I'm thinking he's wondering whether he'll be coming back) and she won't be out there to save him (the scenes where Starbuck has to listen to her comrades - and her student - dying are just so chilling) and that's what's making her bitter; and I understand that she doesn't think Lee has the instincts that will enable him to think outside the box the way that she does; and lastly, I understand that once she knows SHE'S not flying, she must have many more doubts about her plan - it could be a bad plan that STARBUCK might be able to pull out of the fire because she does that, but now she's not there, and the success or failure is in the hands of someone whom she's not entirely sure of, so she must be wondering if she's really accounted for everything. (In the event, not - because of course, had Apollo not done a "retina-detaching move" the plan wouldn't have worked!) And it's wonderful that she can't put all that away and her thin pretense of encouragement falls flat so quickly (and that she has to leave with one final jab!)

I LOVE that Starbuck reacts this way because it's so natural and so human - we have all, on occasion, been jealous even of our best friends (or maybe that's just me and I'm a bad person!) I love that she's being petty, for once, because jaydk and I were talking about how all of Starbuck's flaws were these grand passionate ones - anger, loving unwisely, etc. So it's good to know she can be human sometimes. Heh!

The next scene that I adored was the Adama-Apollo one. I think I have a very different take on this scene than a lot of people do because I don't see it as a heartwarming affirmation by Adama. I think Adama also wonders whether Lee's going to come back from his mission and I think he manages to say exactly the wrong thing again to his son. I love everything about this scene BECAUSE it seems so messed up to me; Adama says he's been a bad father, and Lee doesn't disagree. Lee says no one on "Galactica" thinks he's as good as Starbuck, and his father doesn't say "I do because you're a good officer and a good pilot" - he says "I do because you're my son and I love you" but that's NOT what Lee is asking. He's asking whether his commanding officer thinks he's as capable as another officer is - and his father's answer "you're my son" is not really reassuring. What parent wouldn't say that to their kid even if THEY didn't believe it? (Plus, as someone on TWOP pointed out, Zak was Adama's son too and he wasn't particularly competent as a pilot!) I love how even when Adama is trying to be a good father to his son, he doesn't quite get it right - because he doesn't really know how to interact with this man he doesn't KNOW all that well. And I saw Apollo's telling Adama that he'd bring the lighter back as more of an acknowledgment of the love his father was trying to show him, than as a sort of "OK, dad, I feel much better about myself now." Such a great scene! EJO and Jamie Bamber really have great chemistry together.

And I think it's really telling that the moment of total rapport that these two have at the end of the episode first of all takes place in total silence (words are their enemies - beginning with Lee's words to Adama at Zak's funeral that "ring in his ears" for two years; they do best when they don't talk!); and secondly, that it takes place in an atmosphere where Lee is basically showing he's a chip of the old block. In other words, the rapport is based on Lee being the son that Adama wants - the hotshot pilot - which is only a PART of who Lee is. He is a fantastic pilot (and I'm glad we got to see that) but he's more than that, and I'm still not convinced that Adama values those other, additional qualities, however much he clearly loves his son (I love how when everyone else is cheering and dancing around the CIC, Adama just takes off his glasses for a moment and sort of swallows because Lee's not dead. Sniff!)

In conclusion: Apollo IS a magnificent bastard. (And awww, hugs from Callie!)

Comments

[ilanala]

I like your take on the Lee-Adama scene. I had a problem with it the first time around because Adama up to that point seemed to think that Starbuck could do it better, so when he said he didn't it seemed very false. It makes sense, though, that he's trying to be a good father and say that he believes in Lee even if he doesn't, completely. It's not the right thing to say, but it's believable.

And this is one of the big reasons why I love BSG. Like in that scene, or with Starbuck being petty and unsupportive, the characters don't always do the right thing, but I can usually believe that they're doing what a real person would do. I love noble, self-sacrificing characters as much as the next person, but I can relate to these people a lot more.

In conclusion: Apollo IS a magnificent bastard. (And awww, hugs from Callie!)

He is. And I've decided that Cally has a crush on Apollo, because the way she comes in and hugs him is exactly the sort of thing I would do in that case, using the "Yay, we're not doomed!" party as an excuse to get a hug. (Possibly I'm projecting, but the idea amuses me. Poor Cally and her completely hopeless crush.)

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

Adama up to that point seemed to think that Starbuck could do it better, so when he said he didn't it seemed very false

Yeah, exactly - he brings her in because she'll have a better plan; he doesn't quarrel with her saying she's the best pilot (under normal circumstances) and now, all of a sudden, it jars to have us think he's got total faith in Lee, because no, he clearly doesn't. Or else I am deeply feeling the need to have a fanwank on the lame "you're my son" line because that is NOT what Lee's asking.

It makes sense, though, that he's trying to be a good father and say that he believes in Lee even if he doesn't, completely. It's not the right thing to say, but it's believable.

Yup! We don't say the right things to people we love; we don't always know how to communicate with them - I love how the show goes there all the time. This is a difficult and complicated relationship and they're not afraid to show that.

And this is one of the big reasons why I love BSG. Like in that scene, or with Starbuck being petty and unsupportive, the characters don't always do the right thing, but I can usually believe that they're doing what a real person would do.

Exactly! Starbuck is angry and worried and bitter and she takes it out on the person closest to her, and I'm embarassed to say that I have sometimes done the exact same thing. And I hate that behavior in myself and in Starbuck, but it makes her SO much more real.

He is. And I've decided that Cally has a crush on Apollo, because the way she comes in and hugs him is exactly the sort of thing I would do in that case, using the "Yay, we're not doomed!" party as an excuse to get a hug. (Possibly I'm projecting, but the idea amuses me. Poor Cally and her completely hopeless crush.)

Awwww! That really was sweet that she brings him a fizzy beverage and aww that he gave her the big hug ... Because dammit, President Roslin and Lt. Gaeta, Starbuck's plan and Baltar's info wouldn't have made any difference without Apollo's skill. Harrrumph!

[meret.livejournal.com]

And I've decided that Cally has a crush on Apollo,

Hee! I love that idea! It makes total sence too, after he saves her in Bastille Day. :)

[meret.livejournal.com]

That should be "sense" of course. I'm actually a good speller, but a poor typist.

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

Hee! I do that do - and I HATE the stupid no-editing your comments thing.

I just really love that Callie is the one who gets to hug Apollo and give him his bottle of whateverthehell that stuff is. It's sweet. And nice!

[littlebutfierce]

the scenes where Starbuck has to listen to her comrades - and her student - dying are just so chilling

yes! the way chuckles died was especially so. i wasn't clear on whether the other nugget (cat? is that her call sign?) made it--i think so... otherwise hot dog is the only nugget who got any lines still alive.

[morwen_peredhil]

We saw two female pilots in that scene, and I'm pretty sure it was not Cat who died along with Chuckles.

[littlebutfierce]

We saw two female pilots in that scene

yeah, that's what confused me. thanks!

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure Cat made it because we hear her telling Apollo that he's fracking insane and it seems like no more of the pilots in that strike-force died after the point in which Apollo decides to fly through the refinery tunnel.

[ehab-it.livejournal.com]

I like your interpretation of the 'lighter' scene. I really didn't like it, but giving it the darker tone you suggest helps a lot. I took it at face value as a supportive moment and thought it was lame.

Reinterpreting it as 'meant' to be lame helps me like it more. If that makes any sense?

As for Cally's hug, I loved it. It was such a great moment for her, she is so warm and loving, while Starbuck just stands back, the gulf of their attraction highlighted by Cally's warmth. *sigh*

[telepresence.livejournal.com]

Moore's comments on the Apollo/Adama scene in the podcast supports the "intentionally lame" notion.

[ehab-it.livejournal.com]

Either that or he thought it was lame, and figured better it be 'intentionally lame'.

[telepresence.livejournal.com]

Well, I suppose Moore could be lying about their intentions here, but he's been reasonably upfront in the commentaries about say, when a decision is made mostly for budget reasons, or when they do something that logically doesn't make all that much sense just because they think it's funny or because it moves the plot forward. If he's willing to stand by the glowing spines (which he does, and which he has to know a lot of fans think are just plain goofy), I don't see why he'd bother to cover up with an Adama/Apollo scene like this one. They've certainly given us enough canon up till now to support the notion that his basic love for his children (and I'll include Starbuck here in addition to Zak and Apollo) doesn't necessarily make Adama a great parent.

[ehab-it.livejournal.com]

I was really just being facetious...or at least trying to be.

I'm sure it was as Ron Moore and others interpreted.

And, honestly, I'm impressed at how he staunchly defends the glowy spines even if I do think they're silly too.

[telepresence.livejournal.com]

Well, he staunchly defends them as amusing him. :)

You get the impression from the commentaries that Moore and Eick come up with goofy idead from time to time and they amuse each other with them and then proceed to shamelessly stick them in the show. Which I guess is nice from the point of view of maintaining the health of the producing partnership that keeps the show going, but dude...glowing spines? Okay... Hope Tyrol and Baltar like missionary... :)

[ehab-it.livejournal.com]

I think the most disomfiting thing about listening to the podcasts is finding out how much they arbitrarily decide.

Here I am thinking this complex world and story arc is well thought out, only to discover the whole Boomer/Helo storyline was thought up after the fact so they could keep Helo on the show...

I'm not saying great things aren't coming of it, but yikes, glowy spines do too.

I have to assume based on last week's episode that Baltar is aware of the glowy spine, either that or Six doesn't get glowy in certain positions.

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

Hope Tyrol and Baltar like missionary... :)

Are those spines actually *heated* when they're glowing? I'd be worried about the sheets catching fire and stuff ...

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

They've certainly given us enough canon up till now to support the notion that his basic love for his children (and I'll include Starbuck here in addition to Zak and Apollo) doesn't necessarily make Adama a great parent.

I think this is one of my absolutely favorite things about the series - the idea that, just as in real life, you can love someone a lot and still completely not GET them and mess up how you deal with them. It's so clear Adama loves his children (and I include Starbuck in there as well - although I think he deals with her better than with his sons; perhaps because he met her as an adult; perhaps becuase she is closer to his ideal son than either of his actual sons) but sometimes he's really, REALLY clueless.

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

Reinterpreting it as 'meant' to be lame helps me like it more. If that makes any sense?

Absolutely! I have watched the episode several times, and it makes much more sense to me if Adama's lines are the sort of flailing about, not getting it right thing than if he really does make Apollo feel better by just saying "you're my son." I think Apollo's too smart for that ;)

As for Cally's hug, I loved it. It was such a great moment for her, she is so warm and loving, while Starbuck just stands back, the gulf of their attraction highlighted by Cally's warmth. *sigh*

Awww! I know - Apollo & Starbuck can't just casually hug like that. Although I love that Starbuck came to admit that she'd been really wrong. That was big of her.

[morwen_peredhil]

I've watched this scene lots of times (as this is one of my favorite episodes of the season)

I've only seen it once, but it's already one of my favorites.

she won't be out there to save him (the scenes where Starbuck has to listen to her comrades - and her student - dying are just so chilling)

Oh, gods, I know! And she has to be thinking that if she'd just been able to teach them better they'd still be alive, which is a very natural way to try to feel some control over the situation, and one to which Kara is particularly prone.

I understand that she doesn't think Lee has the instincts that will enable him to think outside the box the way that she does

I don't think Lee believed he had those instincts until after he'd already done it.

I liked the Adama/Lee scene, but if it was meant to be lame, then it must be. (I wouldn't have thought it was lame if it had been my parent saying that to me, but then Lee and I have different issues with our parents.)

I'm going to save my Arms squeeing for the LeeCap.

Finally, I've been waiting to find out where the screen cap for my "fair and perilous" icon came from. It was worth the wait!

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

I've only seen it once, but it's already one of my favorites.

I find it the perfect blend of action and character stuff and of course, Apollo features so heavily in the whole thing ;)

And she has to be thinking that if she'd just been able to teach them better they'd still be alive, which is a very natural way to try to feel some control over the situation, and one to which Kara is particularly prone.

Yes! I think through Kara we've maybe experienced what Adama has to go through every day - he sends his children out there to possibly die and there's very little he can do to save them.

I don't think Lee believed he had those instincts until after he'd already done it.

See, but we HAVE seen him think outside the box in a very compressed time-frame - he had two minutes to do the electro-magnetic pulse thingummy with the Cylon raiders in the miniseries and he not only formulated that plan, he carried it out in the time he needed to. So I don't think he's as unimaginative as Starbuck might believe. I wonder who else KNOWS what he did besides the President.

I liked the Adama/Lee scene, but if it was meant to be lame, then it must be. (I wouldn't have thought it was lame if it had been my parent saying that to me, but then Lee and I have different issues with our parents.)

I don't think it was meant to be "lame" - I think it worked for me because it was so very much Adama and Lee at cross-purposes again and there were so many nuances that were maybe not in the script but played by the actors so well.

I'm going to save my Arms squeeing for the LeeCap.

HA! Yeah, I'm working on it. This week is tough - I have so many caps :)

[kiaforrest.livejournal.com]

>even when Adama is trying to be a good father to his son, he doesn't quite get it right - because he doesn't really know how to interact with this man he doesn't KNOW all that well.<
Hi! I'm new to this LJ community and I saw/ read this a bit differently. The fact Lee is doubting himself IS perfectly natural "can't sleep? Neither could I..." for me implied 'back then' OR 'now' - that it Is normal to doubt yourself even when you're 'super fighter pilot'. "Because you're my son" implied understanding of how Lee felt but, IMHO, no one can Give you self-confidence or reassurance that you can do the impossible. They can acknowledge the fear, doubt and restlessness Not as indicators of potential failures but as Reality of the moments before you strap in and fly off.

The token given his son is like the first time a parent gives the car keys to a young person and does Not stay up all night pacing the floor and pretending they didn't. >g< Bring it back undamaged, oh and grab a gallon of milk on your way home...have fun, love ya, night! (and often the child thinks the parent doesn't Care but the moment a parent CAN do that is amazing and down the road they Both remember it for good or bad)

I have six children and each have their own gift and special talents and joys and sufferings - to treat each one the same and not acknowledge this is more of a fib than saying "the right thing" just to make the moment nice. Who among us wants to be treated to platitudes or like the clone of another sibling? Isn't that the Cylon way? >g< I want the best for each, today, tomorrow and in the future - honesty, acknowledgment and love is what will give them the nudge to trust that all they've learned will mesh together to achieve that as they grow.

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

Well, I don't think Lee was asking for self-confidence so much as he was asking his father AS the commander of the ship, whether he shared the general view that it was too bad Apollo would be leading this mission because Starbuck would be so much better; he wasn't asking whether his FATHER who loves him (and I believe that he knows this) would feel like Lee needed a boost of confidence...

So I think what Lee was asking for was a professional opinion and what Adama gave him was a familial one, if that makes sense.

[kiaforrest.livejournal.com]

It does make sense, absolutely.
I also think in Adama's mind there is a limit of seperation between the
two, as you pointed out. He maybe was afraid to take the professional
bridge or risk the fragile family bond they've *barely* achieved. Adama
stayed focused on sharing what he's learned is a motivator that carries a
person across their fears, others doubts and self doubts. Love and a
connection to more than the moment or mission.

I really appreciated your thoughtful commentary on the episode and
certainly didn't mean to imply I totally disagreed. I just saw this part
slightly differently.

Thanks for taking the time to reply!

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

Oh, no, not at all - one of the things I love about this show is that the actors bring so much nuance to scenes that two people can see the same scene and come away with different interpretations of them, and they are quite probably both valid ones :)

I ADORE the relationship between Adama and Apollo and Adama and Starbuck and I am happy to yammer on for HOURS about it, so thanks for discussing ... I like the idea that Adama is trying very hard to say the right thing as he understands it because he doesn't want to disrupt the fragile bond he has with his son (just as it has to have been a little blow for him when he says that HIS father was a better father than he was, and Lee basically doesn't say anything to contradict that. Heh!)

[kiaforrest.livejournal.com]

well, since ya said yammer >g<
What about that wink between Starbuck & Tigh?
Do you think they were purposely defusing the fuss or egging it on?
I did think Adama had an unstated point that they are drastically beyond 'war college' or any possibility of it being worth much. Just as the nuggets fly by the seat of their bloomers - so in all things.
But... I've watched the ep 3 xs now and that wink still makes me laugh as much as Roslin's look and controlled grin when the back door opens.
OK...trying to hush for a bit....Gee, this is SO cool - I may actually grow up someday... naw

[meret.livejournal.com]

I loved the scene where Starbuck talks to Apollo before the mission too. It would have been so easy for them to have her being all nice and encouraging, but that's not who she it. She has all the tact of a jackhammer, and the only person she ever coddled was Zack, which is a pretty strong lesson never to do it again. I far prefer having flawed, realistic characters, than having characters be "nice" all the time.

Adama says he's been a bad father, and Lee doesn't disagree.

I loved that too!

I think my problem with the Bill/Lee scene was that, to me, JB played it as if his father saying that was reassuring, when it didn't sound that way to me.

He is a fantastic pilot (and I'm glad we got to see that) but he's more than that, and I'm still not convinced that Adama values those other, additional qualities, however much he clearly loves his son

Absolutely! I think he's confused by Lee's other qualities a lot of the time. He understands Starbuck far more than he understand Lee IMO.

Great review! :)

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

She has all the tact of a jackhammer

Ha! OK, I just love that remark, so I needed to highlight it ...

and the only person she ever coddled was Zack, which is a pretty strong lesson never to do it again. I far prefer having flawed, realistic characters, than having characters be "nice" all the time.

Oh, good point! I guess she went the opposite way with Apollo - highlighting all his flaws (according to her!) I really think part of this is because when Starbuck came up with the plan, she assumed she would be leading the strike force, so she could rely on herself to do something spectacular and get it done, even if the plan was flawed. And then once she realized it would be Lee instead, she probably started thinking 'Oh, crap, what did I maybe do wrong with this?' Or something.

I loved that too!

Heh! I know! It was like slap in the face, meet Bill Adama...

I think my problem with the Bill/Lee scene was that, to me, JB played it as if his father saying that was reassuring, when it didn't sound that way to me.

I'm fanwanking this a little, but I felt like Lee was appreciative of his father's efforts to reassure him (in the end) but he was also playing a part for his father a little bit; like he wasn't REALLY reassured, but he almost had to pretend he was ... He didn't seem all that happy even after the little lighter-chat, IMO.

Absolutely! I think he's confused by Lee's other qualities a lot of the time. He understands Starbuck far more than he understand Lee IMO.

I think he makes the mistake of seeing the ways in which Lee *is* like him, and then assuming that Lee is like him in other ways too, which means he's constantly disappointed to find out that Lee is not a copy of Bill Adama. It's like the only way he can appreciate Lee is when he's doing something Bill would do (hence the happy, happy, joy, joy ending of this episode, when Lee's just pulled off a difficult and dangerous mission - but not at the end of "Bastille Day" when Lee defused a difficult and dangerous, but very different, situation in a way that Adama found puzzling!)