(no subject)

[nicwhite86.livejournal.com]

Not to start a TOS vs TNS thing, but whats everyone's response to the comments made in this post on a forum I found randomly?

"Give it a chance."

That was the oft –repeated mantra of the folks on the old Sci-Fi board. Give the new show a chance, don’t pre-judge it; watch it, see what you think. So we did. We watched it and in the spirit of fairness, we matched words with deeds, here at Colonial Fleets, and created a completely separate but equal sub-forum, strictly for new show conversation. It seemed to be the right choice, at the time.

Since then, we have been educated to the mindset of the author that the offerings on this show, called Battlestar Galactica (2003), were to be a reflection of society and we were challenged to "think about it;" that there would be parallels to real-life events such as the Sept 11 attacks and told, by the author, to "make your own judgments as to what they say to you;" and that this new show would completely "re-invent" the sci-fi genre.

Well, we have thought about it and have spoken those thoughts on these forum pages, for much of the past 2 years. Ever since the new series came about, this fanbase has been in a tenuous place and Colonial Fleets was often a tension spring within the fanbase for allowing and even promoting, at times, discussion of the new series. Through that time, we made a concerted effort to separate the comments from the commentator and to keep the debates focused on the issue. Primarily, though, each of us has strived to employ our own personal standards of morality and decency when presenting these thoughts.

An example of these standards of decency and morality can be witnessed by the following remarks by our good friend, Malkyte, who very eloquently expressed the thoughts of many members, here and elsewhere:


"Throughout the many years of human existence, there has always been a line. A line that represented on one side, the best of human decency and morality, and on the other, the pure animalistic and monstrous evil that humans can be. This line has moved back and forth throughout those same years, and depending on individual experiences, it has always been in different places.

"Society in general has appeared to become more tolerant of rude and disrespectful behavior, to the point where it is celebrated when someone is deviant or rebellious. It’s rather disheartening and disturbing at the same time. But our society more and more rewards liars, killers and celebrity deviants, who in some cases are only in the news because of the crap they do, and not for any talent they may possess."


We share those same concerns about society and can see, for ourselves, the truth in the remarks. In addition, we agree that the "line" has been shifting back and forth with a decided tilt toward the less than desirable aspect of human society. We also realize that the entertainment industry has "pushed the envelope as far as they could", only because we have allowed them to do so.

We have allowed the entertainment industry to tell us that
it was "ok" to have a baby's neck snapped (the script originally called for Number Six to drive her finger through the baby's skull);
it was "ok" to draw a parallel of sympathy toward the terrorists who carried out the Sept 11 attacks - in other words, we got what we deserved;
but, the straw that snapped the proverbial camel's back was the use of rape as a military torture tool in the "Pegasus" episode.

We will NOT allow the entertainment industry to tell us that it is "ok", at any time, for a rape to occur. It does not "advance the story", it glorifies a horrible aggression upon another human being.

After nearly 2 years of this "educational experience", we have reached the conclusion that the movement of the line must cease. While we absolutely hold no ill will toward our Fleets family members who are attracted to the show, we can no longer willingly sanction discussion about a show which goes against so many of our innermost values.

Mr. Moore, your show has had many events which have driven us away from its potential enjoyment. The negatives have far outweighed the positives, and in this case, the negatives have finally come to a head that cannot be ignored.

Comments

My comment?

[kimbari.livejournal.com]

Zzzzzzzzz...

Self-righteous = boring

Those assertions don't deserve to be dignified with a response.

[nicwhite86.livejournal.com]

Its Sunday arvo and Im bored, so I was hoping for some blood. Oh well.

[shanaeden.livejournal.com]

LOL, that was quotable!

[the-grynne.livejournal.com]

Unless you object to ART being a reflection of LIFE, I suggest you seriously reconsider your moral idealism. If we can't face the worst aspects of our own species in the abstract, in science fiction, where can we? Or to put it another way: GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE SAND.

[the-grynne.livejournal.com]

Sorry. Am not yelling at you.

^ is directed at the idiots in general.

[the-grynne.livejournal.com]

Also, might I suggest using blockquote, to distinguish what you wrote from what you're transcribing?

[bluebanrigh.livejournal.com]

I think they missed the point.

They seem to think that because it happens, means it's endorsed.

[angel-kathryn.livejournal.com]

... Did anyone, anyone feel that the use of rape as a military tool in interrogations was endorsed by Sharon's near-rape in Pegasus? Was I the only one who was disgusted by Thorne's actions, and who was pleased when Tyrol and Helo reached the cell and stopped him?

...

I think they have missed the point.

[timian.livejournal.com]

we can no longer willingly sanction discussion about a show which goes against so many of our innermost values.

Sorry to break it to them, but if their innermost values can't withstand the rigors of discussion, then they're in much worse trouble than simply not liking a show.

[somedaybitch.livejournal.com]

Not to start a TOS vs TNS thing, but whats everyone's response to the comments made in this post on a forum I found randomly?

there's a world of difference between not liking a show, and nothing wrong with not liking a show, and morally projecting what you perceive the writers' intentions to be. just have the spine to say you simply don't like it and leave it at that. you don't get the moral high ground because there is none.

[theloa.livejournal.com]

Sounds like someone's been looking for an excuse to hate the show.

I was disgusted by the rape-as-torture scenes but I understood them and didn't once think anyone involved with the show was condoning them. Not to mention that the story has not all been told yet.

I'm happy the pressure has been lifted off those guys and they can continue to just enjoy their old Battlestar DVD collections in peace.

[ancarett]

This point of view is hardly the only one amongst TOS fans. But it is pathetic: trust me, they're no loss to this, or any!, fandom.

Their rambling, intellectually incoherent diatribe did inspire a thoughtful response by Ron Moore, however. Read both the letter and RDM's response over at Lee Adama is a Cylon.

[nicwhite86.livejournal.com]

Ron 1, CF 0.

[ancarett]

Oh, yes!

[hederahelix.livejournal.com]

The person who made that post is expressing an opinion that I find all too common. He or she is taking a very literal interpretation of the show and is failing to understand that a television show can portray a person or a behavior without endorsing it. After all, yes, Six did snap the neck of a baby during the miniseries, but I've seen no evidence in the series whatsoever that we're supposed to think that this is proof of Six's moral superiority. I loved the original series. I drove my parents nuts by watching it faithfully when it was on. I missed it terribly for the many years we couldn't really see it. When Sci Fi started rerunning it, I was shocked at how profoundly cheesy it was. Not just the effects--which happens to any Sci Fi show--but the simplicity of the plots and characterizations. I still had a soft spot for it, but, it wasn't the kind of television show that stood up to rewatching 20+ years later and still struck me as timely. It was, frankly, dated. Apollo was too good; Adama was too perfect. And don't even get me started on that little wedding with the dying character.

That said, I have the original series on DVD because it's still a touchstone, of sorts. I can dig those discs out when I have a nostalgic longing for some aspect of my childhood. I miss the old music. And even if it doesn't really square with realism, I miss seeing Starbuck with cigars more often. (Which, I would like to point out, is sort of proof that the original series wasn't all moral either, but you know, far be it from me to point that out. Or to point out that the original series treated race as a black/white issue, while the new series reflects a broader racial diversity. And don't even get me started on gender. Of course, it remains to be see whether the new series will deal with sexual orientation, but I'm willing to cut Ron Moore et. al. some slack for a bit longer on that.)

But what made me go back and appreciate the original series more was getting a much more complex text that occasionally paid loving homage to the original while still moving forward and giving us much better television. My parents dreaded having to sit through the cheese of the original series when it first aired. They indulged me, because I was a kid and that was back in the days when houses tended only to have one television set, if you youngsters can imagine. But they never liked it.

On the other hand, I've managed to get my mom hooked on the new series with relatively little effort. I put in the miniseries, then another ep or two of the first season, and before long she was asking for more.

The new series is a much different kind of show than the original, yes. I, however, am very glad the concept of the original series was allowed to grow up in 25 years, because now it's a series I can appreciate even more than the original.

[shanaeden.livejournal.com]

almost utterly unrelated to this thread, but you made a lightbulb go off with your well-thought out posting:

sexual orientation issues could become EXTREMELY important in a society where, as Roslin said, they need to have babies. Whatever level of tolerance the colonies had developed of homosexuality prior to the cylon attack might just be shattered as time goes on. Homosexuality might even be seen as treasonous by the mass populous, and it would be up to Roslin/Adama to thoughtfully work the problem out.

[kimbari.livejournal.com]

Being homosexual doesn't stop you from having babies.

Just ask the homosexual parents of children. :)

[shanaeden.livejournal.com]

I know it doesn't. I suppose it all could be solved by the homosexual women agreeing to be impregnated through sperm donation and such. There goes my plot device *snap*

[eken95.livejournal.com]

We haven't seen a lot of the human's religion so far just so much as moves the plot along. However from what little I know of different religions homosexuality does seem to be frowned on by fundamentalists of varying religions. The humans we've seen seem to be a pretty tolerant lot so far, but if fundamentalism crept in it might become an issue.